By Scott Weinberg
If the names Joe Lynch, Adam Green and Ryan Schifrin sound familiar to you, then congratulations: you're a horror geek who's right up-to-date on the newest flicks and filmmakers. While the three directors have one obvious thing in common (they each directed their first horror feature recently), here's something you might not have known before: They're all pals! (You haven't lived until you've talked E.T. with Green, argued about TCM2 with Lynch, or discussed Hitchcock with Ryan.) So I thought it might be fun to have them participate in what I'm calling a Three-Headed Interview. I lobbed a bunch of horror-centric questions towards Lynch (Wrong Turn 2), Green (Hatchet), and Schifrin (Abominable), just to see if the guys who make the horror flicks are as passionate (and insane) as the guys who watch 'em. (And write about 'em.) So let's get to it!
You've all made horror movies very early in your career. Why? Reasons of passion (you love the stuff) or practicality (hey, horror sells)?
Adam Green: Definitely passion. Hatchet was my passion project from the time I was eight years old and first getting into horror. I always wanted to make that movie and I poured everything I had into it. On the plus side, it doesn't hurt to have your first project be a horror film because in the grand scheme of things they can typically be done on a budget and still be very successful. I think that's a big reason why so many filmmakers cut their teeth in horror. If an investor gambles a million bucks on your movie -- so long as you don't just totally screw it up, chances are good that they will see a healthy profit. Horror appeals worldwide and it doesn't necessarily need huge A-list actors or millions of dollars to appeal to its audience, so you can actually have a fighting chance if you make a quality film. Regardless of what happens domestically, you will be making money off of your horror film worldwide. An arthouse drama or low-budget comedy can't always do that.
Ryan Schifrin: I?ve been making horror movies since I was a kid. I love ?em, and they?re so fun to do. You can have such a dramatic impact on viewers with some very simple tricks. It?s a lot like doing a magic trick, and fooling people. In my case it?s ?How did they cut that guy?s head off? That looks real!? So, for a first feature, doing a horror movie made sense for three reasons: I love making them, they aren?t expensive to do, and yes, there is a big market for them.
Joe Lynch: I'd say a touch of both. Most of my heroes in the film world were directors, writers and makeup artists that started in the horror world, so if anything I wanted to follow suit since they inspired me so much. It seemed that horror was a great jumping-off point to develop a career in any of those fields. But honestly, many say "write what you know" or something to that effect, and since I grew up with a steady diet of horror and genre flicks and truly love them even today, why not make something I'm going to love doing and more importantly, love watching? No matter what I do in the future, be it an original story or script, Battlefield Earth 2 or a re-imagining of Amazing Grace and Chuck, I will never lose my love for the horror genre because it's one that is closest to my bloody heart.
If you're a horror fan at heart, how does that enter into the equation when you're writing, shooting or editing your own horror flick? Do your years of experience WATCHING the stuff come in handy when it comes to MAKING the stuff? Also, do you help each other out on your movies? Editing advice and what-not?
AG: In my case, I just made the movie that I wanted to see. So everything I had experienced in watching movies came into play, not just horror. There were times on set where I was referencing Evil Dead to my crew and then in the next breath talking about what the rain looked like in Jurassic Park or how the trees were lit in E.T. With Hatchet, I was sort of in a selfish mode where I paid no mind to what the current trends were or what was selling now in the genre. I just wanted to make a film that reminded me of all of the things I loved about slasher films in the first place. From a business side of things, that kind of move is risky. I mean, at the time it would have been a smarter gamble to make a torture film or a remake if all I cared about was making a sale or turning a profit. In fact, many places originally passed on the Hatchet script simply because it wasn't a remake, sequel, or J-horror. Sadly, that was the climate back in 2004 when I was trying to get it set up. But in my case it all worked out for the best and the movie was a big success. Horror filmmakers are usually horror fans -- and horror fans are typically cool to anyone else who's just as big of a geek about this stuff as they are. So yeah, we all really try and help each other out whenever we can. A success for any horror film is a success for our genre -- and we love that. There's a tight group of us that have sort of come up together, and we're very close, very loyal friends at this point. But even some of the filmmakers who are way more established then us have been extremely cool and offered advice and support. There's a lot of good people working in our genre.
RS: Being a horror fan means that there is a whole lexicon of things that are almost short-hand. I can tell my D.P. ?I want the blue foggy look from Friday the 13th Part 4?, or for the monster?s eyes this is the ?Creepshow shot?. It?s good to know what?s already been done, so you can not think you?re being original when you?re not. Also, it?s good to know the kinds of things that affected you, and then try to come up with something that will have the same impact. They do always say ?Write what you know.? So, if you?re a veritable walking encyclopedia on horror movies, it?s the equivalent of having gone to years of graduate school. It becomes second nature. I didn?t know Adam when he made Hatchet, but I did watch an early cut of Spiral and gave some suggestions. Joe showed me Wrong Turn 2 before he did his sound design, so I gave him some suggestions from things I had learned the hard way, and also some of my stings and ambient sound FX to use for his temp.
JL: Anyone who watches Wrong Turn 2 will see that I kinda wore my influences on my sleeve this time around, and that was intentional for this project. Not to say I relied on what worked in past films, but I will say that it helped me develop my own style a bit, so all those horror films I loved and the ones that influenced me were integral to how I focused my visual strategy. Being able to see what -- to me as a viewer -- worked in past movies (and of course what didn't) is great, and it lets you feel more confident when you make your own decisions and hone your craft. Yeah, luckily we have a really great, tight-knit group of directors, writers and other guys who work in the horror scene who are great spring-boards for advice, and I came to them a bunch of times with questions on ideas, editing, music choices, you name it, and they have done the same. It's great to have guys who know the genre and the industry workings so you don't feel so "alone in the dark" so to speak. No, I wasn't referencing the Uwe Boll film...
How far is too far? Is there something that shouldn't be done in a horror film?
AG: Horror has always been about pushing the limits. I must say though that at this point there isn't really that much left to do unless you're literally only going for shock value. I mean, sure, I can say I've seen it all and then some sick bastard will send me a video of an abortion in a blender ... but that kind of shock value is just a desperate plea for attention. Shock value doesn't impress me. Storytelling impresses me. Entertainment impresses me. Fun impresses me. And every movie doesn't have to have everything in it. For instance, in Hatchet it was all about the "fun." It was supposed to be a ride where you laugh and cheer and "remember when," not walk out in the lobby and throw up from fear. But my next film Spiral (which I co-directed with Joel David Moore) has no gore or laughs in it at all -- it's all about psychological suspense and dramatic performances. Every situation is different as to which angle you are going for to take your audience on a journey. For me personally, the place where I usually find myself tuning out is when there is an ultra-violent rape scene. I fully understand that in some cases you need to show the horrors of that act to tell your story -- but sometimes in horror flicks they just throw in rape scenes to try and revolt the audience. Guess what? It revolts me. But it also makes me lose interest really fast -- especially when I know that it is merely a shock device and not actually needed for the story at all. Show me a person getting chainsawed in half and I'm a happy guy. But rape a woman and I'm out. I get off on fantastical spooks and crazy gross-outs ... not suffering. But that's just me.
RS: That?s not for me to say. Horror movies have always been the place where the line keeps getting moved. Rape? A penis being cut off? Been done. Things that might shock your parents don?t bug you. Things that shock you won?t faze your kids. Personally, I don?t like making ugly, mean-spirited movies, so there are things I just won?t do because I don?t like brutalizing the audience. But that?s a matter of personal taste. The important thing is not to bore your audience, and to give them characters they can relate to and care about (so when nasty things happen to them it?s all the more disturbing!)
JL: Taboos are made to be broken and pushed, but it's up to the filmmaker as to what is too much, too far, too intense, because ultimately, you don't want to lose your audience. It really depends on the story and your audience. It's not like you can do a severed head rape scene in The Orphanage or Miss Congeniality, but for a film that warrants an extreme element or set-piece, then it's about the filmmaker's craft and how they want that displayed on screen (or off). Most times, and I know it's probably hard to believe coming from a guy who has an intestine fetish, but the "theater of the mind" is so much more powerful a device than anything KNB or ILM could conjure up, and a smart filmmaker will know how and when to use that to affect a viewer. What you don't see is most times more effective than what you do, especially in our "information junkie" era of wanting to know how everything works and seeing 4-disc special editions that show you behind the curtain almost too much. Cinematic sleight of hand still wins in my book, but again, it depends on the movie and story. Horror is about taking us into unsafe waters and then allowing us to walk away, so I think nothing is off limits in terms of what can be told and shown on-screen. It's just up to the filmmaker to be responsible and respect the audience and know what will affect them without losing them in exploitation.
Humor in horror: When is it important and when should you leave it out?
AG: It all depends on your tone and what your movie is. If it's The Exorcist or even something that is brutal survival horror like Texas Chainsaw, there's not much room for humor without killing the suspense you're trying to build. But An American turning into a Werewolf in London or a group of tourists getting hacked apart by an undead swamp monster ... you can only take yourself so seriously. It's certainly a decision you make in the scripting phase and it's something that is a case-by-case scenario. In Spiral, too much humor would not have fit and it would have confused the movie, whereas in Hatchet the comedy was very heavy and part of the whole experience. You need to wield the comedy aspect carefully and if you're going to use it -- use it and if not, don't. The '80s slasher films often found audiences laughing when they were not supposed to be because they got confusing in tone by the third sequel. Some horror fans vehemently hate humor anywhere near their horror. I love it when it is intended and when it works. If I want to be scared to death I'll watch The Descent. If I want to have a good time with my friends I'll throw in Evil Dead 2. It depends on my mood. With Hatchet I wanted to lighten things up a bit and bring it back around to what I grew up on. Down the line I may want to beat the humor out of horror again, who knows?
RS: Again, it all depends on the tone of the movie. Some movies shouldn?t have any humor, as it dilutes the reality and seriousness of the situation. Other movies need it to lighten the suspense. Suspense is like a rubber band ? you want to stretch it as far as you can without breaking it. Humor can help accomplish that, like letting out pressure from a release valve.
JL: Yeah, depends on the story. 30 Days of Night has no real need for comic relief (and the few moments that illicit a nervous chuckle work so well), but that's because the graphic novel dictated the stark tone. Slither is a good example of having a great sense of humor, but still knowing when to "get 'cha," same with Hatchet and even Devil's Rejects. Many times, humor is the sugar to make the medicine go down smoother, and when you're dealing with some harsh shit ... murder, dismemberment, mutant incest, it's always good to allow the audience a little smile or chuckle if it's in the right spot. Then again, it can also deflate a scene with ill-timed "comic relief" and we've all seen enough slasher flicks to know the humorous guy is usually the one people want to die the most. It's a tricky balancing act, but if used right, it's the perfect ruse for audiences to stay off-balance for the best big shock or scare. "Oh, I can come out now and chuckle a little? Oh, ok ... whew, that was a clo -- christ!!!!"
Name three "horror" directors you grew up adoring. How many have you met and what was that like?
AG: My three favorites growing up were John Landis, John Carpenter, and George Romero. I just got to meet Romero at Fantastic Fest in Austin as we both had films showing there. He was just as cool as you'd always imagine him to be. Calm, collected, and full of wit. I've almost met John Landis about five times and at one point he even called my office. However he called on the day before I moved out of that office and he didn't leave a return number -- so that didn't work out. John Carpenter's assistant said that they were going to show John Hatchet and have him get back to me ... back in 2006. Halloween is my all-time favorite slasher and it's a movie that is like chicken soup to me when I am sick. I absolutely love every frame of that film and Carpenter will always be my hero because he's one of the few horror directors that have consistently hit it out of the park ... and not just hit a home run once in their career. Prince of Darkness and The Thing are regulars in my home theater.
RS: George Romero, Stuart Gordon, and Sam Raimi. I mention them because I?ve met them all (otherwise John Carpenter would be on the list!). It was really gratifying to meet them -? kind of a ?now I can check that off the list? kind of feeling. Romero is such a nice, humble guy and very approachable. I remember reading a biography about him called ?The Zombies That Ate Pittsburgh? when I was a kid. That and ?Skywalking? were my two favorite books about filmmakers. I met Stuart Gordon when there was a small screening of one of his films where they were editing it, and wanted some feedback. I remember piping up and giving notes and thinking ?Who am I to tell the man who made Re-Animator how to fix this?? He was really gracious and is a very sweet man. I briefly met Raimi at Comic-Con this year. He was super nice, and took a picture with us. Frankly, I?m just relieved they were all so nice, there is nothing worse than meeting someone you?ve admired for years and having them be a jerk to you -? it taints your enjoyment of their work from there on.
JL: I've been lucky enough to meet many of my horror heroes in the last few years alone, not just directors but FX artists, actors, and writers too. But the three that I grew up adoring (god, only three? jeez, too many to count!) were David Cronenberg, Sam Raimi, and John Carpenter (with George Romero, Tobe Hooper and William Friedkin coming in a close 4th -6th)> All of them made films that scared the shit out of me. I've been fortunate to have met and talk with them, and they still are three of my biggest influences ... but there's just too many to single out!
"Horror is a young man's game." Agree or disagree.
AG: Horror is certainly not a young man's game. I think many young directors start in horror (as I stated above), but plenty of them still have it even once they get a little more older and wiser. I mean, how old was Wes Craven when he pulled out Scream and kicked everyone's asses again? It's never over. Some directors may go off and do two decades of family comedies after their horror film days ... but they'll be back. They always come back. If Hitchcock were still alive he'd still be the king -- and no one would deny that. I'm 32 now. I had my 30th birthday in the pre-production offices of Hatchet. Back then I had no gray hair. Now I look and feel like an old man. By the end of Hatchet 2 I'll be in a wheelchair. You can't live long working like this.
RS: Also disagree. Hitchcock was no spring chicken when he made Psycho. The older you get, the wiser (hopefully) ?- and therefore you should be wilier, more devious and more diabolical in the kinds of tales you weave. I?m in my 30s, but don?t feel any different than my teens or 20?s ?- in other words, I still play video games and collect toys.
JL: I'm 57 (I have great genes I guess), so a little late in the game I guess, but it all comes down to being passionate about the story and genre soil you're planting the seed of your story in. I disagree that it's a young man's game only because you have guys like Romero, Hooper, Gordon, Argento, etc., all still making horror movies. I just think you just have to have a young man's (or woman's) wide-eyed sensibility and grab onto that since horror is a genre that really embraces the youthful imagination. When we're kids we don't have as much of the real world barging in, trying to infiltrate our lives (bills, taxes, politics, gray hair), so we allow ourselves to fall into the scary and the supernatural ideas all the more. It's about holding onto that mindset, remembering what frightened us in our youth and tapping that vein of innocence and open-mindedness and applying it to the project you?re making.
What are your earliest (and fondest) memories of horror cinema?
AG: I remember watching USA Up All Night with my Dad during the summertime. It would be a double feature every Saturday night and they'd show amazing movies like Rawhead Rex, C.H.U.D., Cujo, Pumpkinhead, and The Hills Have Eyes. I couldn't get enough of it. I think the first horror movie I ever saw was Friday the 13th Part 2. I was about eight years old and my brother showed it to me. I had a good time through most of it, but I nearly shit myself when Jason jumped through the window at the end. From that point on I was hooked. I'd rent anything in the horror section for the rest of my life. Oh, what's the title of this one? WORST $5 HORROR MOVIE EVER MADE? Sign me up. I'm watching it.
RS: I saw The Deep when I was about three, and there was a scene where a guy in a skeleton costume came in and I thought he was really a skeleton monster. I had to sleep with a night light on for years afterward. I was drawing monsters since I was about two or three? I don?t even remember where my love for this stuff started. I think I came out of the womb this way.
JL: I have a few: Seeing Dawn of the Dead for the first time (I think I was four) with my mother in the theater and still remembering people screaming. Watching Salem's Lot at 9am on a Sunday morning and being freaked out for days. Days! Seeing the HBO commercial for Nightmare on Elm Street at 2am and having to stay up the rest of the night, watching my ceiling so Freddy didn't come out of it. Watching Poltergeist and, during the face rip scene, hiding under the TV so the "evil TV waves" couldn't "get me."
People seem to think that horror writers and directors must be rabid loons who collect knives and human hair -- but 99% of the horror-makers I've met are loose, laid-back, sincerely friendly, and seemingly more than well-adjusted. Is there some form of catharsis going on when one creates fictional carnage?
AG: I point that out all of the time. When I was still traveling in the "comedy" circle of life in Hollywood I had very few real friends. Comics are the most disturbed, messed up people you'll meet. They're funny -- but that's because they are so miserable in real life. They also tend to be extremely competitive and that's something I could never deal with. With horror (or at least in my close group of friends) it's just not like that. We have the love for the genre in common and for that very reason we're just happy to be here. Most of the horror folks I've met are extremely gracious and they're wonderful human beings. Is it because we get our dark desires out in other ways? Maybe. But even the fans are sincerely friendly people. You don't see romantic comedy fans holding "romantic comedy conventions." They come up to us with so much passion and so much love for what we do. It's like a circle of energy. For every downside to being a "genre filmmaker" and every struggle you go through to get these kinds of movies made and released properly ... you meet fans on the convention circuit who remind you why it's all worth it. I can't speak for everyone, but my fans especially are a very passionate and good-natured bunch. I make an effort in my letters, appearances, and blog postings to spread good energy and be something positive for my fans -- and I see them reciprocating it tenfold. They're not on message boards talking smack about other movies and they're not the dickheads walking around the convention halls looking to pick fights. Often times you'll see two kids that are total strangers wearing "HATCHET ARMY" shirts walk past each other and just shake hands and introduce themselves. That's what it's all about. I'm sure every director, actor, musician, or sports player thinks they have the best fans -- but in reality, I actually do.
RS: You make an excellent point. The nicest people I have met are all of the horror filmmakers, journalists and fans. Maybe they?re just comfortable with their knowledge of the difference between fantasy and reality. I don?t personally think that I?m working out my own demons by killing people on screen, any more than I do when I ?kill? people in a video game. So, I can?t tell you the reasons why, but I have noticed how gentle and kind some of the scariest looking people are. It?s those comedy writers you have to watch out for!
JL: I think we just know what affects us, what scares us, and we try to harness that into our ideas, which is what a good visual storyteller does. Honestly, it's the nice guys always finishing last who end up making the best horror helmers, because we've secretly slaughtered all you assholes who kicked sand in our faces in the sickest of ways -- and we just used that twisted internal imagination in a creative, cathartic way, yet still brandishing a calm, serene demeanor. So the question is ... are you sure we're who we are, really? Mwaoohahahaha...
We close with a two-parter: Over the next five or ten years, I'd love my career to be ... where? Again, over the next five or ten years, I hope the horror genre is ... doing what?
AG: Over the next 5 to 10 years I'd love for my career to still be climbing and to still keep working within different mediums and genres. I'd love for it to be a little easier and not have to personally still be campaigning and rallying the world just to promote my film. It would be great to be in a situation where I have a distributor and real financial marketing machine backing my finished product so I wasn't still biting and clawing every single time. But most of all I want to still be making the movies I want to make. It's a slower climb this way -- but man am I proud of what I have accomplished so far. I've got two theatrical releases in the can and both are completely different styles. I'm working in TV, film, creating new series, writing ... that's all I want. To keep creating and keep challenging myself. As for the horror genre? Man, horror will always keep going. Like porn there will always be an audience. I just hope that it never loses its sense of fun for too long and that by the time I'm ready to do a remake ... that there's something left to remake.
RS: I?d like my career to be at a place where I can continue to work on projects that I really love. And that goes for 30 years from now as well. I love being creative, and my great wish is to continue being inspired by ideas that I absolutely want to see brought to life and have the means to do so. I hope the horror genre continues to be mainstream and popular and successful and innovative, infused with creativity and fresh ideas and not just remaking the old stuff because people are scared to be original.
JL: I'd love to continue making movies, especially stories I love and are passionate to tell. This is one fickle business and who knows where anyone will be next year, but if I'm lucky and work hard and try to make the right choices and decisions, I hope in 10 years I'll be making more movies, hopefully some more in the horror genre, pushing it forward. In terms of the scene, I just don't want it to lose all the great momentum it's gained over the last five years, for it to flourish, find the next sub-genre that reflects the culture and tap into the fears of the modern times. Honestly, I just wanna see some great monster movies come back like The Host. We need more monsters!!!
Bonus Minutiae: Toss out some really good titles that you'd recommend to the readers. Also feel free to pimp your flick or throw in some personal message to the fans.
AG: If you haven't seen it, check out Mother's Day. It's righteous and "Queenie" rocks.
RS: I highly recommend a movie called Downfall, about Hitler?s last days in the bunker. It?s not strictly horror, but I can?t imagine anything more compelling and horrific. I'm writing and producing a comic book series right now called Spooks that comes out February. It?s military versus monsters on an epic-scale. It?s a movie I want to make someday, and is my love letter to the Halloween holiday, classic monster movies and a bunch of other things. Please check it out! Also, Adam and I just finished the new Halloween short film for this year, it?s called The Tiffany Problem, and it should be up on Ariescope.com within the week. It stars Joel David Moore, Corri English and a bunch of cool cameos. Hope you guys enjoy!
JL: 28 Weeks Later, The Orphanage, The Devil Dared Me To, The Signal, All the Boys Love Mandy Lane, and of course Wrong Turn Deux: Even Wronger!